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	<title>Comments on: Ding Ding, Google! Time For Cathedral v. Bazaar, Round 2?</title>
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	<link>http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/ding-ding-google-time-for-cathedral-v-bazaar-round-2</link>
	<description>Frustrated by the often-confusing and conflicting SEO advice you find on the web? The best SEO book is free - stop searching and download it today!</description>
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		<title>By: sumera</title>
		<link>http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/ding-ding-google-time-for-cathedral-v-bazaar-round-2#comment-56453</link>
		<dc:creator>sumera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 03:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/ding-ding-google-time-for-cathedral-v-bazaar-round-2#comment-56453</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Can someone plz explain BM25 and BM25F to me.
i also need formula of BM25F&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can someone plz explain BM25 and BM25F to me.
i also need formula of BM25F</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Clint Lenard</title>
		<link>http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/ding-ding-google-time-for-cathedral-v-bazaar-round-2#comment-13038</link>
		<dc:creator>Clint Lenard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 18:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/ding-ding-google-time-for-cathedral-v-bazaar-round-2#comment-13038</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hey Dan,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That&#039;s actually a great point, regarding spam. Wikia is 100% human, correct? If so, then yes... it&#039;s going to be a nightmare for them without some sort of Software integration/Intelligence program to prevent the most obvious spam so that they can handle the not-so-obvious... ha... yes, it&#039;s going to he hell for them either way.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I guess most people (like me) don&#039;t even realize how tough it is for these Search Engines, at first glance, to keep away Hardcore Spammers. I guess that is definitely going to be a major issue for them.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But being an Open Source project, I&#039;m hoping that they will be able to figure something out in the fight against spam. I guess I&#039;m just figuring that, much like the PHP community, there will be a lot of high profile names stepping in to help with the success of the Search Engine. Everybody wants to be appreciated... and with a Major (possible) Search Engine, I guess I &quot;want&quot; to believe that there will be a lot of new &quot;up and comers&quot; willing to step up and gain some recognition.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Ehhh... I&#039;m a little tired right now. Hopefully I made a little sense! ;-)&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Dan,</p>

<p>That&#039;s actually a great point, regarding spam. Wikia is 100% human, correct? If so, then yes&#8230; it&#039;s going to be a nightmare for them without some sort of Software integration/Intelligence program to prevent the most obvious spam so that they can handle the not-so-obvious&#8230; ha&#8230; yes, it&#039;s going to he hell for them either way.</p>

<p>I guess most people (like me) don&#039;t even realize how tough it is for these Search Engines, at first glance, to keep away Hardcore Spammers. I guess that is definitely going to be a major issue for them.</p>

<p>But being an Open Source project, I&#039;m hoping that they will be able to figure something out in the fight against spam. I guess I&#039;m just figuring that, much like the PHP community, there will be a lot of high profile names stepping in to help with the success of the Search Engine. Everybody wants to be appreciated&#8230; and with a Major (possible) Search Engine, I guess I &#034;want&#034; to believe that there will be a lot of new &#034;up and comers&#034; willing to step up and gain some recognition.</p>

<p>Ehhh&#8230; I&#039;m a little tired right now. Hopefully I made a little sense! <img src='http://www.seofaststart.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dan Thies</title>
		<link>http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/ding-ding-google-time-for-cathedral-v-bazaar-round-2#comment-13000</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Thies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 02:21:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/ding-ding-google-time-for-cathedral-v-bazaar-round-2#comment-13000</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks for the great comments, Clint.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If Wikia can produce something that&#039;s even &quot;arguably&quot; better than Google (Firefox is better than IE, no?)... even if it&#039;s only &quot;arguably better&quot; for certain types of use, then it&#039;s going to be a great thing.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;What makes it so difficult is that Wikia is stepping into an ecosystem where search engine spam has been evolving like a virus. Spam is countered by the major search engines&#039; &quot;immune system&quot; which has also been evolving for years.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Stepping into that environment, Wikia has no immune system. If human intervention proves to be effective in that regard, then they have a chance to survive.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If they can succeed against the spam, without simply creating a new form (manipulative human intervention), then all they have to do is solve all the other extremely difficult challenges standing between square one and good search results.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Wikipedia&#039;s &quot;success&quot; in maintaining its integrity vs. spammers is touted, but even Wikipedia wasn&#039;t able to stop the manipulative intervention. That&#039;s why they had to implement nofollow in order to become a less tempting target.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Wikia won&#039;t be able to do that, and the job of protecting dynamic search results is massively greater than protecting a finite number of pages where in most cases there is an objective standard against which a change can be evaluated.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So it&#039;s not going to be easy.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I sincerely hope that there is enough good creative energy in the world to make Wikia work. But Jimmy Wales sure could have picked something easier to do. :D&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the great comments, Clint.</p>

<p>If Wikia can produce something that&#039;s even &#034;arguably&#034; better than Google (Firefox is better than IE, no?)&#8230; even if it&#039;s only &#034;arguably better&#034; for certain types of use, then it&#039;s going to be a great thing.</p>

<p>What makes it so difficult is that Wikia is stepping into an ecosystem where search engine spam has been evolving like a virus. Spam is countered by the major search engines&#039; &#034;immune system&#034; which has also been evolving for years.</p>

<p>Stepping into that environment, Wikia has no immune system. If human intervention proves to be effective in that regard, then they have a chance to survive.</p>

<p>If they can succeed against the spam, without simply creating a new form (manipulative human intervention), then all they have to do is solve all the other extremely difficult challenges standing between square one and good search results.</p>

<p>Wikipedia&#039;s &#034;success&#034; in maintaining its integrity vs. spammers is touted, but even Wikipedia wasn&#039;t able to stop the manipulative intervention. That&#039;s why they had to implement nofollow in order to become a less tempting target.</p>

<p>Wikia won&#039;t be able to do that, and the job of protecting dynamic search results is massively greater than protecting a finite number of pages where in most cases there is an objective standard against which a change can be evaluated.</p>

<p>So it&#039;s not going to be easy.</p>

<p>I sincerely hope that there is enough good creative energy in the world to make Wikia work. But Jimmy Wales sure could have picked something easier to do. <img src='http://www.seofaststart.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Wikia.com Has Launched. Will This REALLY Be The Google Crusher?</title>
		<link>http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/ding-ding-google-time-for-cathedral-v-bazaar-round-2#comment-12997</link>
		<dc:creator>Wikia.com Has Launched. Will This REALLY Be The Google Crusher?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 01:04:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/ding-ding-google-time-for-cathedral-v-bazaar-round-2#comment-12997</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] Michael Arrington has blogged about his opinion, basically labeling it as a big disappointment. Dan Thies, on the other hand, has his own opinion(s). [...]&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Michael Arrington has blogged about his opinion, basically labeling it as a big disappointment. Dan Thies, on the other hand, has his own opinion(s). [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Clint Lenard</title>
		<link>http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/ding-ding-google-time-for-cathedral-v-bazaar-round-2#comment-12995</link>
		<dc:creator>Clint Lenard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 00:25:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/ding-ding-google-time-for-cathedral-v-bazaar-round-2#comment-12995</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;What interests me is whether an open source, community effort can build a search engine to rival the best efforts of large commercial engines like Google. To put it another way, what are the limits of open source?&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I agree with you about the future and how things may come into play with being an open source community, but I tend to look at this project similar to PHP. Maybe I&#039;m wrong, but it&#039;s being backed by a company and I believe this thing will take off. Will it be bigger than Google? I doubt it... and I&#039;m sure the numbers will always be questionable, regardless... similar to how the number of Firefox users vs. Internet Explorer users statistics seem to add up. I always have MORE Firefox users on ALL of my sites versus Internet Explorer. I tend to believe that&#039;s partly due to the Commercial backing and the band wagon full of commercialized fans.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Google has always been the &quot;do no evil&quot; company, yet their slowly stepping on toes here and there. This might just help Wikia grow like wildfire once they get into the Beta phase.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But... then comes the future. An open source community can always be a little shaky. Hence: Mambo &amp; Joomla.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I am looking forward to seeing how things pan out in the future. I&#039;m rooting for Wikia, although I&#039;m still a major fan of Google! ;-)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Great Article as always, Dan!&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#034;What interests me is whether an open source, community effort can build a search engine to rival the best efforts of large commercial engines like Google. To put it another way, what are the limits of open source?&#034;</p>

<p>I agree with you about the future and how things may come into play with being an open source community, but I tend to look at this project similar to PHP. Maybe I&#039;m wrong, but it&#039;s being backed by a company and I believe this thing will take off. Will it be bigger than Google? I doubt it&#8230; and I&#039;m sure the numbers will always be questionable, regardless&#8230; similar to how the number of Firefox users vs. Internet Explorer users statistics seem to add up. I always have MORE Firefox users on ALL of my sites versus Internet Explorer. I tend to believe that&#039;s partly due to the Commercial backing and the band wagon full of commercialized fans.</p>

<p>Google has always been the &#034;do no evil&#034; company, yet their slowly stepping on toes here and there. This might just help Wikia grow like wildfire once they get into the Beta phase.</p>

<p>But&#8230; then comes the future. An open source community can always be a little shaky. Hence: Mambo &amp; Joomla.</p>

<p>I am looking forward to seeing how things pan out in the future. I&#039;m rooting for Wikia, although I&#039;m still a major fan of Google! <img src='http://www.seofaststart.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>

<p>Great Article as always, Dan!</p>]]></content:encoded>
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