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	<title>Comments on: Ding Ding, Google! Time For Cathedral v. Bazaar, Round 2?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/ding-ding-google-time-for-cathedral-v-bazaar-round-2/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/ding-ding-google-time-for-cathedral-v-bazaar-round-2</link>
	<description>Frustrated by the often-confusing and conflicting SEO advice you find on the web? The best SEO book is free - stop searching and download it today!</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:48:17 -0600</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: sumera</title>
		<link>http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/ding-ding-google-time-for-cathedral-v-bazaar-round-2/comment-page-1#comment-56453</link>
		<dc:creator>sumera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 03:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/ding-ding-google-time-for-cathedral-v-bazaar-round-2#comment-56453</guid>
		<description>Can someone plz explain BM25 and BM25F to me.
i also need formula of BM25F</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can someone plz explain BM25 and BM25F to me.<br />
i also need formula of BM25F</p>
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		<title>By: Clint Lenard</title>
		<link>http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/ding-ding-google-time-for-cathedral-v-bazaar-round-2/comment-page-1#comment-13038</link>
		<dc:creator>Clint Lenard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 18:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/ding-ding-google-time-for-cathedral-v-bazaar-round-2#comment-13038</guid>
		<description>Hey Dan,

That&#039;s actually a great point, regarding spam. Wikia is 100% human, correct? If so, then yes... it&#039;s going to be a nightmare for them without some sort of Software integration/Intelligence program to prevent the most obvious spam so that they can handle the not-so-obvious... ha... yes, it&#039;s going to he hell for them either way.

I guess most people (like me) don&#039;t even realize how tough it is for these Search Engines, at first glance, to keep away Hardcore Spammers. I guess that is definitely going to be a major issue for them.

But being an Open Source project, I&#039;m hoping that they will be able to figure something out in the fight against spam. I guess I&#039;m just figuring that, much like the PHP community, there will be a lot of high profile names stepping in to help with the success of the Search Engine. Everybody wants to be appreciated... and with a Major (possible) Search Engine, I guess I &quot;want&quot; to believe that there will be a lot of new &quot;up and comers&quot; willing to step up and gain some recognition.

Ehhh... I&#039;m a little tired right now. Hopefully I made a little sense! ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Dan,</p>
<p>That&#039;s actually a great point, regarding spam. Wikia is 100% human, correct? If so, then yes&#8230; it&#039;s going to be a nightmare for them without some sort of Software integration/Intelligence program to prevent the most obvious spam so that they can handle the not-so-obvious&#8230; ha&#8230; yes, it&#039;s going to he hell for them either way.</p>
<p>I guess most people (like me) don&#039;t even realize how tough it is for these Search Engines, at first glance, to keep away Hardcore Spammers. I guess that is definitely going to be a major issue for them.</p>
<p>But being an Open Source project, I&#039;m hoping that they will be able to figure something out in the fight against spam. I guess I&#039;m just figuring that, much like the PHP community, there will be a lot of high profile names stepping in to help with the success of the Search Engine. Everybody wants to be appreciated&#8230; and with a Major (possible) Search Engine, I guess I &#034;want&#034; to believe that there will be a lot of new &#034;up and comers&#034; willing to step up and gain some recognition.</p>
<p>Ehhh&#8230; I&#039;m a little tired right now. Hopefully I made a little sense! <img src='http://www.seofaststart.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Dan Thies</title>
		<link>http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/ding-ding-google-time-for-cathedral-v-bazaar-round-2/comment-page-1#comment-13000</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Thies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 02:21:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/ding-ding-google-time-for-cathedral-v-bazaar-round-2#comment-13000</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the great comments, Clint.

If Wikia can produce something that&#039;s even &quot;arguably&quot; better than Google (Firefox is better than IE, no?)... even if it&#039;s only &quot;arguably better&quot; for certain types of use, then it&#039;s going to be a great thing.

What makes it so difficult is that Wikia is stepping into an ecosystem where search engine spam has been evolving like a virus. Spam is countered by the major search engines&#039; &quot;immune system&quot; which has also been evolving for years.

Stepping into that environment, Wikia has no immune system. If human intervention proves to be effective in that regard, then they have a chance to survive.

If they can succeed against the spam, without simply creating a new form (manipulative human intervention), then all they have to do is solve all the other extremely difficult challenges standing between square one and good search results.

Wikipedia&#039;s &quot;success&quot; in maintaining its integrity vs. spammers is touted, but even Wikipedia wasn&#039;t able to stop the manipulative intervention. That&#039;s why they had to implement nofollow in order to become a less tempting target. 

Wikia won&#039;t be able to do that, and the job of protecting dynamic search results is massively greater than protecting a finite number of pages where in most cases there is an objective standard against which a change can be evaluated.

So it&#039;s not going to be easy.

I sincerely hope that there is enough good creative energy in the world to make Wikia work. But Jimmy Wales sure could have picked something easier to do. :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the great comments, Clint.</p>
<p>If Wikia can produce something that&#039;s even &#034;arguably&#034; better than Google (Firefox is better than IE, no?)&#8230; even if it&#039;s only &#034;arguably better&#034; for certain types of use, then it&#039;s going to be a great thing.</p>
<p>What makes it so difficult is that Wikia is stepping into an ecosystem where search engine spam has been evolving like a virus. Spam is countered by the major search engines&#039; &#034;immune system&#034; which has also been evolving for years.</p>
<p>Stepping into that environment, Wikia has no immune system. If human intervention proves to be effective in that regard, then they have a chance to survive.</p>
<p>If they can succeed against the spam, without simply creating a new form (manipulative human intervention), then all they have to do is solve all the other extremely difficult challenges standing between square one and good search results.</p>
<p>Wikipedia&#039;s &#034;success&#034; in maintaining its integrity vs. spammers is touted, but even Wikipedia wasn&#039;t able to stop the manipulative intervention. That&#039;s why they had to implement nofollow in order to become a less tempting target. </p>
<p>Wikia won&#039;t be able to do that, and the job of protecting dynamic search results is massively greater than protecting a finite number of pages where in most cases there is an objective standard against which a change can be evaluated.</p>
<p>So it&#039;s not going to be easy.</p>
<p>I sincerely hope that there is enough good creative energy in the world to make Wikia work. But Jimmy Wales sure could have picked something easier to do. <img src='http://www.seofaststart.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Wikia.com Has Launched. Will This REALLY Be The Google Crusher?</title>
		<link>http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/ding-ding-google-time-for-cathedral-v-bazaar-round-2/comment-page-1#comment-12997</link>
		<dc:creator>Wikia.com Has Launched. Will This REALLY Be The Google Crusher?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 01:04:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/ding-ding-google-time-for-cathedral-v-bazaar-round-2#comment-12997</guid>
		<description>[...] Michael Arrington has blogged about his opinion, basically labeling it as a big disappointment. Dan Thies, on the other hand, has his own opinion(s). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Michael Arrington has blogged about his opinion, basically labeling it as a big disappointment. Dan Thies, on the other hand, has his own opinion(s). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Clint Lenard</title>
		<link>http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/ding-ding-google-time-for-cathedral-v-bazaar-round-2/comment-page-1#comment-12995</link>
		<dc:creator>Clint Lenard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 00:25:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/ding-ding-google-time-for-cathedral-v-bazaar-round-2#comment-12995</guid>
		<description>&quot;What interests me is whether an open source, community effort can build a search engine to rival the best efforts of large commercial engines like Google. To put it another way, what are the limits of open source?&quot;

I agree with you about the future and how things may come into play with being an open source community, but I tend to look at this project similar to PHP. Maybe I&#039;m wrong, but it&#039;s being backed by a company and I believe this thing will take off. Will it be bigger than Google? I doubt it... and I&#039;m sure the numbers will always be questionable, regardless... similar to how the number of Firefox users vs. Internet Explorer users statistics seem to add up. I always have MORE Firefox users on ALL of my sites versus Internet Explorer. I tend to believe that&#039;s partly due to the Commercial backing and the band wagon full of commercialized fans.

Google has always been the &quot;do no evil&quot; company, yet their slowly stepping on toes here and there. This might just help Wikia grow like wildfire once they get into the Beta phase.

But... then comes the future. An open source community can always be a little shaky. Hence: Mambo &amp; Joomla.

I am looking forward to seeing how things pan out in the future. I&#039;m rooting for Wikia, although I&#039;m still a major fan of Google! ;-)

Great Article as always, Dan!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#034;What interests me is whether an open source, community effort can build a search engine to rival the best efforts of large commercial engines like Google. To put it another way, what are the limits of open source?&#034;</p>
<p>I agree with you about the future and how things may come into play with being an open source community, but I tend to look at this project similar to PHP. Maybe I&#039;m wrong, but it&#039;s being backed by a company and I believe this thing will take off. Will it be bigger than Google? I doubt it&#8230; and I&#039;m sure the numbers will always be questionable, regardless&#8230; similar to how the number of Firefox users vs. Internet Explorer users statistics seem to add up. I always have MORE Firefox users on ALL of my sites versus Internet Explorer. I tend to believe that&#039;s partly due to the Commercial backing and the band wagon full of commercialized fans.</p>
<p>Google has always been the &#034;do no evil&#034; company, yet their slowly stepping on toes here and there. This might just help Wikia grow like wildfire once they get into the Beta phase.</p>
<p>But&#8230; then comes the future. An open source community can always be a little shaky. Hence: Mambo &amp; Joomla.</p>
<p>I am looking forward to seeing how things pan out in the future. I&#039;m rooting for Wikia, although I&#039;m still a major fan of Google! <img src='http://www.seofaststart.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Great Article as always, Dan!</p>
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